Talk:Graham Hancock

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Q1: Why does the article say that Hancock's ideas are pseudoscientific?

A1: Hancock has written numerous books and has made television documentaries, but does not submit his work for peer review in mainstream academic journals. Wikipedia articles are based on reliable secondary sources and do not present theories as valid if they are not supported by experts in the relevant field. When Hancock's work was examined by mainstream archaeologists for the BBC's Horizon documentary series in 1999, academics were critical of aspects of his work, and after a complaint by Hancock and Robert Bauval, the Broadcasting Standards Commission found only one point of unfairness in the documentary.[1] Hancock has ample opportunities to promote his work through his own channels, but it is not the job of Wikipedia to right great wrongs. Unless his work undergoes peer review and is accepted in the academic community, it cannot be presented as having equal validity to work that has undergone peer review.

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Semi-protected edit request on 14 October 2024

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Change "Pseudoscientific" and "pseudo archaeological" "Scientific" and "archaeological", because the man himself clearly stated that he found this ridiculous. G12427 (talk) 20:00, 14 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

He is neither a subject expert or an RS. Slatersteven (talk) 20:03, 14 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. -- Maddy from Celeste (WAVEDASH) 20:15, 14 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Who do his personal opinions matter on the topic? Lostsandwich (talk) 02:05, 15 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Graham Hancock does not appear to have absolved any kind of schooling in archeology, yet still makes many claims which go against common scientific consensus without providing a sufficient amount of supported evidence. He also has been shown to exaggerate evidence, or to ignore previously disclosed facts (for example the fact that the "Bimini Road" has been extensively proven to be a stretch of beach rock, yet he claims it to be an Atlantian road in "Ancient Apocalypse"). In turn he would fall under the very defenition of pseudoarcheology.

I think that in turn it is reasonable to refer to him as a pseudoarcheologist in his wiki-article. SomeCatOnTheInternet (talk) 17:44, 18 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Recent clarification provided by a RS

I was reverted twice without a WP justifiable reason. I'm open to discussing the RS which I provided. Here is what I want to add for clarification:

Hancock has strongly rejected allegations that he is a racist, a white supremicist, as well as other defamatory accusations by the SAA Archaeological Record, saying he was "personally hurt badly...wounded badly". ^[1]. He has also has expressed support for native rights.^[2]

This is absolutely true according to an RS and in line with WP policies. We can exclude the word "defamatory" should there be a consensus, but being accused of being "racist", etc., is certainly defamatory.

Bill the Cat 7 (talk) 17:17, 15 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

As I noted at RSN, can you provide a reliable source that the SAA has explicitly called Hancock a racist and white supremicist, rather than just saying he's promoted ideas that are racist and white supremacist in origin? There's frankly, a massive diffrerence between the two. Hemiauchenia (talk) 18:02, 15 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Its an SPS. Slatersteven (talk) 12:21, 16 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

RSN discussion

Regarding the recent edit war, see Wikipedia:Reliable_sources/Noticeboard#The_Joe_Rogan_Experience. Thanks. Hemiauchenia (talk) 17:23, 15 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Clarification

1. GH was indirectly, but clearly, accused of various serious things.

a. https://www.theguardian.com/science/2022/nov/27/atlantis-lost-civilisation-fake-news-netflix-ancient-apocalypse

b. https://www.theguardian.com/tv-and-radio/2022/nov/23/ancient-apocalypse-is-the-most-dangerous-show-on-netflix

c. https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/article/2024/jul/01/netflix-ancient-apocalypse-canceled

d. https://newrepublic.com/article/169282/right-wing-graham-hancock-netflix-atlantis

e. https://hyperallergic.com/791381/why-archaeologists-are-fuming-over-netflixs-ancient-apocalypse-series/

f. https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-12-07/experts-say-ancient-apocalypse-netflix-series-is-racist-untrue/101728298

g. https://www.theguardian.com/science/2022/nov/27/atlantis-lost-civilisation-fake-news-netflix-ancient-apocalypse

h. https://theconversation.com/with-netflixs-ancient-apocalypse-graham-hancock-has-declared-war-on-archaeologists-194881

i. https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-13965425/ancient-APOCALYPSE-comet-Netflix.html

2. I updated the article providing a RS source saying that GH strongly, and in no uncertain terms, rejected such very serious allegations.

a. Joe Rogan Experience #2136 - 2:02, 2:08, & 2:19.  

b. Hancock has strongly rejected allegations that he is a racist, a white supremacist, etc., as well as other defamatory accusations by the SAA Archaeological Record, saying he was "personally hurt badly...wounded badly". ^[3]. He has also has expressed support for native rights.^[4]

3. I was reverted, and then I reverted...twice, which I freely admit was wrong, although an honest mistake. My sincere apologies.

4. I was given an "edit warring" warning on my home page. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Bill_the_Cat_7

a. I responded, saying, "I provided an RS, which apparently you didn't agree with. We can discuss it on the talk page should you wish, but I honestly believe you are the one who is "edit warring". Let's take this up on the Talk page. Bill the Cat (talk)"

5. That didn't seem to satisfy User:Hemiauchenia. Instead, the user opened a ticket to the Edit Warring WP site (I can't find the link for this; it may have been deleted), as well as this RS site.

a. Note that I said I was willing to discuss it on the Talk Page of GH.

a. This might be WP:WikiBullying, but I'm not sure and I'm not claiming that it is.

6. The SAA article claimed that "Hancock’s narrative emboldens extreme voices that misrepresent archaeological knowledge in order to spread false historical narratives that are overtly misogynistic, chauvinistic, racist, and anti-Semitic."

a. Most reasonable people would agree that these are strong accusations and defamatory if they are not true.  According to GH, these accusations and defamatory statements are very much completely false.

7. I'm NOT suggesting that the article from the SAA be in any way removed or censored. I think it's important. In fact, I think it ought to be expanded to explain what exactly is being claimed and why. However, I maintain that an accurate and equally clear rebuttal in GH's own words, must be included in the article.

8. With the policies linked below, I can provide another RS for GH's full response in his own words (not in WP Voice), to most or all claims leveled against him. Although this discussion should have been explored on GH's Talk Page, my hand has been forced, so I'm engaging here. I can update GH's Talk Page with these points after this has been resolved.

a. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Biographies_of_living_persons

b. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Biographies_of_living_persons#Avoid_self-published_sources

9. I haven't seriously edited WP in a quite a long time (12+ years). Forgive me if I don't have neither the time nor inclination to engage in such matters on a regular basis. I'm just a WP Gnome at this point. Nevertheless, much of the article is a direct attack on GH's theories (pseudo this and pseudo that, etc.). Fair enough, since they are sourced. A direct/indirect attack on GH's character/motivations/implications must be responded to, in his own words, for the sake of neutrality. Simply saying that he doesn't agree, without being allowed to speak for himself, is unacceptable.

Thank you. ~~~~ Bill the Cat 7 (talk) 16:48, 19 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

What are you actually suggesting? As far as I can see, the self-published source you've provided can at best support the statement "Hancock denies being a racist or white supremacist". I don't see the point of including this, though, because it's kind of a given that he would make such a denial. Almost everybody denies being racist – especially after they've done something racist. – Joe (talk) 17:25, 19 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

You don't see a point in allowing the person in question to defend himself against obvious defamatory claims? Seriously? If the accusations are true (although WP is not concerned, for good reasons, with "the truth"), they are NOT defamatory, but that's the pertinent question, right? GH should be allowed to respond for purposes of neutrality, even with self-published sources, per self-published sources policies. Bill the Cat 7 (talk) 18:20, 19 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Of course he can respond. That's got nothing to do with us; we're an encyclopaedia, not a forum for debate. The question is whether adding "Hancock denies being a racist" to our biography is adequately supported by sources (yes) and useful to readers (probably not, because what else would he say?) – Joe (talk) 18:45, 19 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

People saying that "Graham Hancock has promoted ideas of racist origin" is not the same as saying that he has been indirectly, but clearly, accused of being a racist and white supremacist. If you can't understand this basic distinction then you have no business editing Wikipedia. Hemiauchenia (talk) 17:32, 19 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Well, that seems to me to be clearly hostile and a personal attack, which I find very offensive. Perhaps you should assume good faith. At this point, I think you are engaging in WP:WikiBullying. I would much rather discuss this in a civil manner, but your last statement makes it difficult, although I will continue to engage civilly. Bill the Cat 7 (talk) 18:20, 19 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I think you should read WP:CIR. Hemiauchenia (talk) 18:25, 19 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Another passive-agreesive attack. You sure you want to continue along these lines? Bill the Cat 7 (talk) 18:28, 19 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

If you want to take me to WP:ANI to report me, be my guest. Hemiauchenia (talk) 18:29, 19 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

^ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-DL1_EMIw6w&t=14479s
^ "The Strange and Dangerous Right-Wing Freakout Over Ancient Apocalypse". The New Republic. ISSN 0028-6583. Retrieved 2024-04-26.
^ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-DL1_EMIw6w&t=14479s
^ "The Strange and Dangerous Right-Wing Freakout Over Ancient Apocalypse". The New Republic. ISSN 0028-6583. Retrieved 2024-04-26.

[1] ttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-DL1_EMIw6w&t=14479s

[2] "The Strange and Dangerous Right-Wing Freakout Over Ancient Apocalypse". The New Republic. ISSN 0028-6583. Retrieved 2024-04-26.

[3] ttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-DL1_EMIw6w&t=14479s

[4] "The Strange and Dangerous Right-Wing Freakout Over Ancient Apocalypse". The New Republic. ISSN 0028-6583. Retrieved 2024-04-26.

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